Lets talk about fusions

Fusions throw the power scalling out of the window.
As soon as Gotenks shows up in the Buu Saga the whole power scalling goes wild.
We have 2 options, none of which is perfect:

Option 1. Blow up the numbers, make base Gotenks stronger than a Super Saiyan Goku. Then when he goes
Super Saiyan 3 make him 50 times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku (with fixed multipliers it will end up that way). Make Ultimate Gohan also 50 times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Make Vegito extremely powerful.
It might work in Buu Saga. What is the problem?

There's no way in the upcoming 4 years to Dragon Ball Super to make it work:

- Goku in 4 years won't get 50 times stronger (especially that Beerus in the anime/movie mentions that Base Goku wouldn't take out Frieza, I know it doesn't happen in the manga but it's important not to stray away from the anime/movie canon anyway).

- Gohan in 4 years won't get so weak that he can't take 1st form Frieza (also anime/movie canon I know).

- Gotenks wouldn't give Beerus such a weak fight, being many times stronger than Goku/Vegeta

- Vegeta, whose showed power is surpassing Gotenks and Gohan when Beerus shows up wouldn't in 4 years get what, over 200 times stronger? Because if we take option 1 then in Buu Saga he's around 4 times weaker than Goku, who is 50 times weaker than Gohan/Gotenks.

- if fusion is so strong we have other things to worry about later- Kelfa, even if at the time of her forming Caulifla and Kale were weakened, Kefla would be multiple times stronger. If Kale was able to surprise Blue Goku then with like *5- *10 fusion multiplier she would wreck Jiren. Fusion Zamasu wouldn't be stopped by Perfected Super Saiyan Blue unless this state was like ~50 times stronger than regular Super Saiyan Blue, which also seems like a stupid idea.

I don't like the above problems, even if some feats here and there suggest it's the right way (the biggest problem is Piccolo being amazed by Base Gotenks power and base Vegito in DBS blowing a huge chunk of Fused Zamasu, which is the most stupid scene in the manga if we think about it, since in DBZ Vegito went Super Saiyan as soon as he showed up).

So, Option nr 2:

Downplay the fusion, fuck with the multipliers.
Super Saiyan is *50? No, lets assume that fusion steals some of that power and the multiplier for a Super Saiyan is *5. It helps make the base fusion characters a bit stronger than usually, *5 is enough of a difference to still make Super Saiyan viable.

We know both fusion methods are unstable- Super Saiyan 3 made Gotenks defuse faster and Super Saiyan Blue Vegito lasted also probably only a few minutes. We can bullshit a theory that Super Saiyan is fucking with fusions to make it work in the power level list. Also it's really easy to assume that fusions weren't made with super saiyans in mind so they wouldn't be super compatible with them.

So, what are my multipliers for fusion and which fusion is better?

At first I had an unpopular opinion that Fusion Dance is actually better, because the feats observed from fusions were more impressive in Fusion Dance cases, Fusion Dance is more restricted and needs both a flawless dance and great ki control and Potara is basically a magic tool while a technique should be stronger.

And before we go to my conclusions let's talk a while about known fusions and their feats, just that we are all on the same page.

Gotenks is made of Trunks and Goten, kids who in their Super Saiyan state can surprise Android 18, but are probably weaker than her. Base Gotenks doesn't have any feats outside of impressing Piccolo with his power, he gets badly beaten up by Fat Buu.
Even after training in Room of Spirit and Time Base Gotenks can barely make Super Buu move with his attacks.
Even after turning into a Super Saiyan, Buu still doesn't need to take the battle seriously. Gotenks is definitely much weaker than Buu.
Super Saiyan 3 is a different story, he puts Goku's to shame and definitely is stronger than Super Buu when Gotenks  gets serious.

It's important to say I don't see Gotenks being stronger than Goku or Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super- Goten and Trunks don't take training seriously.

Vegito is made of Goku and Vegeta both in Buu Saga and in Zamasu Saga. It was very hard at first to set any numbers, because Dragon Ball Z ended with Super Saiyan Vegito being the strongest character shown, some sources even said that his power equals the power of Goku multiplied by the power of Vegeta. That number is absolutely insane, even without a Super Saiyan. And since we don't see such feats shown in a short fight between Zamasu and Vegito in Super I'm going to ignore it.

What we see in a manga canon is Vegito entering Super Saiyan and totally dominating Super Buu (Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks absorbed). There was a debate if Vegito is using a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2, but sadly most sources suggest it's a regular Super Saiyan.

For the numbers it would be much easier if Vegito was a Super Saiyan 2 in that fight, because even if Goten, Trunks and their fusion Gotenks is much weaker than Vegito, when we put all the multipliers of Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 then it turns out their power is similar. But more about it later, since I managed to cheat a bit and make it work better.

Kibitoshin is an another fusion of Potara but he never fights anyone so we will ignore him.

Dragon Ball Super introduces a few problems with Potara fusions. They retcon the fusion running time and actually show that Vegito can defuse even faster because of how powerful he is.

First fusion we see there is a Fusion Zamasu, a fusion between Future Zamasu (who is weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks) and Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.

And he doesn't have outstanding feats compared to Goku Black. He dominates Goku and Vegeta initially, but Goku manages to blow a hole in his chest, Vegito before turning Super Saiyan Blue manages to destroy his arm and later a Gamma Burst Flash from Vegeta blows him to pieces.

He is totally outmatched by Super Saiyan Vegito and matched by Mastered Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

When it comes to numbers I would say fusion isn't much stronger than Goku Black because there's a huge gap in power between the fusing characters.

Vegito makes his return in Super and he outclasses Fusion Zamasu in a very short fight. Sadly he plays around with Zamasu and defuses before firing his ultimate attack. Supreme Kai says Vegito might be stronger than Beerus but we know he isn't a reliable source of information.

There is one problem with Vegito, and it's blowing the Zamasu's arm before he goes Super Saiyan Blue. This is one of the reasons why in my previous post I added Saiyan Beyond God state, because base Vegito wouldn't be strong enough to deal such damage to Fusion Zamasu. Saiyan Beyond God Vegito has much closer numbers.

Kefla is a fusion between saiyans Caulifla and Kale and it's a similar case to Fusion Zamasu, where the fusion is between characters with a huge difference in power, as Super Saiyan Caulifla is weaker than Base Kale.

The worst part about Kefla is that she's much weaker than she would be if the fusing characters weren't already battle worn. Caulifla got her ass seriously beat by Frieza and Dyspo, while Kale after having a monstrous power in her Legendary Super Saiyan state (called in the manga Power Stressed Super Saiyan) had a majority of her power spent and she was close to collapsing.

She was definitely still very strong, blowing away multiple fighters after fusing but he draw the battle with Gohan.
The powerlevel of Gohan is a subject for another post since he's the most inconsistent character in Dragon Ball. But many fans online agree that Gohan at this point is weaker than Goku and Frieza, while being stronger than Android 17.
It's fair to assume that Kefla during the Tournament of Power is much weaker than Power Stressed/Legendary Super Saiyan Kale. She is formed from weakened fighters, Kale's Legendary Super Saiyan is not compatible with Caulifla's regular Super Saiyan and there's a huge power gap between the fighters fusing like with Zamasu.
I put her slightly above Super Saiyan Kale, who managed to surprise Frieza but he was still confident he would win a battle with her if he went full power. And of course she's at 50% of her power, if both Caulifla and Kale were at their 100% before fusing then Kefla would be stronger than all fighters at the time except for Jiren.

I want to include Gogeta here, because Dragon Ball Super movies are in that weird, joined canon between anime and manga, where no one is using Mastered Super Saiyan Blue or Kaioken Super Saiyan Blue. As of writing this post I don't have all the numbers figured out, but I'm positive that after including Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Beyond God transformations I can make them work.
So let's talk feats shown- Gogeta is a fusion dance character created by Goku and Vegeta fusing and unlike Vegito he's serious, not playing around when fighting. In his Saiyan Beyond God he only dodges some of Broly's blasts and he transforms into a Super Saiyan Beyond God after that.
In this state he's stronger than Super Saiyan Broly, forcing Broly to go Legendary Super Saiyan/ Power Stressed Super Saiyan, where Broly is shown to surpass Gogeta.
But after Gogeta goes Super Saiyan Blue it's game over for Broly, even if we assume that he still gets stronger (unlike Kale, who in the Tournament of Power started losing power after power stressing) he is not able to close the gap to Gogeta and is nearly killed after sustaining a bunch of powerful attacks.


Ok, we talked about fusion characters, so which fusion is stronger?

Based on feats I was previously stating that Fusion Dance is stronger than Potara. Other argument was that a technique that requires perfect movements and precise ki control should be stronger than a magic earring.

But the Broly movie, which I really wanted to include to manga canon really flipped every idea I had for numbers- Gogeta was just too strong in his Super Saiyan Blue, the numbers went absolutely insane.

And I really got tired looking at the discussions online having good arguments for both fusions. So as you can expect I went with:

Fusions are equal in power.

It's a really, really boring idea, but it works best.
So what are the numbers?

(power_x + power_y) *100 (but the Super Saiyan multiplier is lowered to *5).
Additionally for Fusion dance the power levels need to be equal, and in potara fusion case a huge difference in power between characters fusing means the multiplier is
(power_x + power_y) *2

Therefore Goku was right when thinking that fusing with Mr.Satan could make him weaker.

There is one issue with these numbers though and I need to cheat in order to make it work.

Goten and Trunks are multiple times weaker than Goku and Vegeta, but when we start stacking that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 multipliers ( *8) then we have a problem with Super Saiyan Vegito in Buu Saga.

Hopefully we can all agree that the difference in power isn't extremely huge between adults and kids- Goten was weaker than Gohan but it's about a *2 - *4 difference as he was close to hitting Gohan in fights while Gohan is about *2 weaker than Goku. Trunks is much weaker than Vegeta, but he managed to touch Vegeta's face during the training so *4-*8 difference is also very likely.

With *8 difference between the pair of adults and kids and using official (?) multipliers for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 we see that Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is very close or even stronger than Super Saiyan Vegito. And Super Saiyan Vegito outclassed Super Buu (Gohan,Piccolo,Trunks,Goten absorbed).

We want it to work so we cheat by saying: hey, we never saw Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks, right? And both Trunks and Goten can't go Super Saiyan 2 on their own, right? They only had about 1 week to train in the Room of Spirit and Time (people always assume Goten and Trunks got 2 times more powerful in that time which I call major bullshit) so I openly cheat and state that they skipped Super Saiyan 2 and went to Super Saiyan 3, which would skip Super Saiyan 2 multiplier.

Therefore in my powerlevel list Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is 4 times stronger than Super Saiyan Gotenks, not 8 times.

And yes, I'm aware that Super Saiyan Vegito seems too close in numbers to Buu. But we know that Vegito has at least one more transformation up his sleeve, so please be aware that he's still majorily holding back. That's the worst part- if it was officially stated Vegito was in his Super Saiyan 2 state then we wouldn't have to cheat with Gotenks and there would be a nice huge gap in numbers between Buu and Vegito.

Our next topic is Gohan, Piccolo and human characters and then we go straight to the numbers, I promise

Transformation multipliers

Welcome to my first discussion post where I will introduce multipliers used in my power level list.

Since it's a bit lengthy I will post the multipliers here and talk about them afterwards:

Super Saiyan: Base *50

Ascended Super Saiyan: Base *80

Ultra Super Saiyan: Base * 110

Legendary Super Saiyan: Base *120

Super Saiyan 2: Super Saiyan *2 , up to Super Saiyan *10 with mastery.

Super Saiyan 3 : Super Saiyan 2 *4

Super Saiyan God : Super Saiyan 3 * 10

Saiyan Beyond God: Base * 400 so the same as Super Saiyan 3

Super Saiyan Beyond God: Saiyan Beyond God * 5 so a half of Super Saiyan God

Super Saiyan Blue: Super Saiyan God *5

Super Saiyan God-to-Blue: Super Saiyan Blue * 1,5

Mastered Super Saiyan Blue: Super Saiyan Blue *2

Evolved Super Saiyan Blue: Mastered Super Saiyan Blue *2,5

Ultra Instinct: yet to be estimated.

1. Kaioken. While more technique than a transformation it multiplies user's base power and the strongest we see is kaioken *20 that Goku uses against Frieza on Namek. Because this transformation can damage the user's body and Super Saiyan being much stronger it's soon pretty much forgotten.

One important note is that I believe Tien uses the principle of this technique in order to make Neo Tri Beam multiple times much stronger than the original Tri Beam and much safer to the user too.

I understand Kaioken as controlling and rising ki in every cell/muscle of your body, which is why it's so hard to master and the humans didn't bother to learn it (of course we know that the real answer is Toriyama didn't care about them enough in order to give them the technique).

Therefore I can see Tien using the principle of Kaioken only on his hands, since Tri Beam also focuses all of user's energy in his hands. That's why Neo Tri Beam was able to push and give minor injuries to Semi-Perfect Cell despite Tien being over a hundred times weaker- the technique's multiplier is *100. And it's not a number I made up, it's actually written on a Dragon Ball Wiki and I liked it, it made sense for me.

2. Super Saiyan. I'm not going to write much here, the multiplier is *50 as originally stated.

I do however need to cheat in 2 cases and lower the multiplier to *5.

- Fusions. Both potara and fusion dance make an ultimate warrior, often shown in base form as extremely powerful.
We see Base Gotenks impress Piccolo and attack Super Buu in that state.
We see Vegito blow up a huge chunk of Fusion Zamasu in his "base" form (more about it later)
We see Gogeta fly around Broly's attacks in his "base" form

If we put *50 modifier on that we would have some serious powerscaling issues. I will write about it more in a post about fusions but basically we see Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan being weaker than Goku in Dragon Ball Super.
 If we blew up the multipliers and said that Super Saiyan Gotenks is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku then Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks would be several times stronger than Goku. I don't see Goku getting ~4 times stronger in 4 years, sorry.

Fusions also weren't made with super saiyans in mind, I would say that super saiyan puts a lot of strain of the body already, therefore the multiplier is *5 in that case..

- Goku Black. I started this project by trying to cover Zamasu saga first, since it's the most inconsistent with power levels and powerscaling. I might discuss this in another post but Base Goku Black can defeat Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (not full power) who at full power can match Super Saiyan 3 Goku, while full power Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta can defeat a Super Saiyan Goku Black.

In easier (?) to read form:

Do You see the problem here? If we keep *50 multiplier for Goku Black then it means that full power Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta is multiple times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku! It wouldn't make much sense to me. Sure, it is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 but I would say maybe 25% stronger.

*5 multiplier fits to my numbers so I will keep it. And during writing this post I managed to find a way to explain it.

Goku Black's body isn't in sync when Zamasu's Saga starts. When he swapped bodies with Goku he couldn't even go Super Saiyan, but through zenkai the body started accepting the new host and unlock Goku's powers.
At the start of the saga his Super Saiyan isn't perfected yet. It is after Zamasu heals Goku Black, that's why he gets absolutely destroyed by Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta at first but later can hold his own- at first his Super Saiyan multiplier is *5, and after zenkai it's *50.

EDIT: I have a new theory to tackle the problem of Goku Black, more below in a discussion about Super Saiyan Rose.

3. Ascended Super Saiyan and Ultra Super Saiyan , known as Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3

There are power ups over the base Super Saiyan made by Power Stressing the transformation, increasing muscle mass and by boosting the stamina drain. In my understanding you can't boost the power of Ascended Super Saiyan much more without going to Ultra Super Saiyan, this state just doesn't allow for a more flexible ki control.

There are no 'official' multipliers for these forms, I saw *75 and *90 over the base form once but I do believe that Ultra Super Saiyan is actually stronger than Super Saiyan 2 in terms of the raw power so I won't agree with them.

For me it's:
 Base *80 for the Ascended Super Saiyan
Base *110 for the Ultra Super Saiyan

Worth noting that Ascended Super Saiyan is in general an improvement over a standard Super Saiyan, having increased speed and power while having a manageable stamina drain, while Ultra Super Saiyan is slower than a regular Super Saiyan, has a massive stamina drain and maybe even requires recharging to stay in the form.

What about Mastered Super Saiyan? It still has *50 multiplier, but mastering the transformation allows for just a more productive and faster training since the transformation doesn't strain the body at all, allows for powering up during the battle just as Base form does. It is huge and shows that both Goku and Gohan who were weaker than Vegeta before they all trained in the Room of Spirit and Time  got much stronger than Vegeta did in 2 years in the chamber without staying a one whole year there.

4. Legendary Super Saiyan

It's a similar form to previous two but the power up multiplier is Base *120. We only see this form once in the manga, second time is in Broly's movie so it's hard to say something certain about it.

It still drains the stamina quickly, as seen with Kale losing a lot of power before fusing but I don't think it's as bad as with Ultra Super Saiyan. The speed is also probably increased, as with Ascended Super Saiyan.

I believe Kale subconsciously entered this state to stop her powerlevel from growing too much for her to control.

Broly in the movie entered this state because he couldn't overpower Super Saiyan Gogeta. Before Gogeta charged his kamehameha we see Broly come back to his senses out of fear in this form, so it might be a state one can control. Maybe the stamina draining and potential ki lowering made him calmer too.

5. Super Saiyan 2

The multiplier for this form is simple, it's *2 the power of a Super Saiyan.

However in the Super manga we see this form outperform a Super Saiyan 3. Angered Vegeta powers up his Super Saiyan 2 so much that the characters state he surpassed Goku and I do believe in that moment Vegeta was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, landing a few hits at supressed Beerus.

Later we see Future Trunks mastery of this form that allows him to match Super Saiyan 3 Goku despite being much weaker than Goku in his base form. Vegeta sees this and takes Trunks to train.

I don't have any reason to think those feats aren't the same thing and soon Vegeta trashes Super Saiyan Goku Black with this form as well. Let's call it a mastered super saiyan 2, with an additional modifier of *5, so 25% stronger than Super Saiyan 3. Which I think is fair.

6. Super Saiyan 3

I'll be using the *4 multiplier with that form, even though I personally think that the gap between super saiyan 2 is too big.

Super Saiyan 3 was a huge problem when trying to sort out Gotenks power level and I had to cheat in an interesting way in order to fit.
Main problem was Vegito fighting Super Buu - trying to set the modifiers for fusions so they would work in both DBZ and DBS was the second hardest thing after Goku Black to figure out. Even if Goten and Trunks are much weaker than Goku and Vegeta (their Super Saiyan can surprise android 18) then with all the Super Saiyan 2 and 3 multipliers they are actually surpassing Super Saiyan Vegeto. If Vegeto was using a Super Saiyan 2 then there wouldn't be a problem.
But more about that in the fusions discussion.

7. Super Saiyan God

I wanted to talk about this state a bit later but since this is the point where we need to start making up our own numbers it's good to start with first new transformation introduced in Dragon Ball Super.

We need to estimate how strong this form is- based on feats we know nothing aside of "it's many times stronger than Super Saiyan 3"

If we observe how Goku is transforming to Super Saiyan 3 in the Buu Saga and Goku Black unlocking more transformations it's a simple rule of "add more power to unlock more power".
Transformations are like barriers one needs to break with a huge amount of ki to get them. And since Super Saiyan God requires a ritual where good hearted saiyans focus their energy in one saiyan- lets treat it that way.

So we know that the power of the Super Saiyan God is similar to a power of Goku + the power of Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks and Goten. I don't count Pan because she isn't even born yet.
But we also know that the characters can output more than just their max power into attacks and so on with ki control. How much? I would say that since it's stretched in time and not released at once that the power is around *3. And of course I base that on absolutely nothing, in my old powerlevel lists it was the max ki a character can spent before dying (so the strength of suicide attacks basically).

So: 1 Goku, 3 Vegetas, 3 Gohans, 3 Gotens and 3 Trunkses. But how much is that? Well, we saw Vegeta slightly surpassing Super Saiyan 3 Goku while Gohan didn't train and is probably on a level of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.
Lets assume that the power Vegeta has over Goku (not Vegeta's power) + power of Goten, Trunks and Gohan are roughly equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

So now we have 1 Goku + 3 Vegetas strong as Goku, + 3 combined Gokus = 7 Gokus

Goku powered with 6 other Gokus can unlock a Super Saiyan God , so let say it has a multiplier of *10 becuse it's a nice, round number not far from *10.
That we managed to estimate more or less.



7. Saiyan beyond God / God-like Saiyan

That's a transformation I hoped to avoid with manga canon but it appears in the Ressurection F manga and actually was very helpful in a few key moments so I decided to include it.

This transformation is basically a base state empowered by the godly ki or by using some of the Super Saiyan God power without changing into that form. Personally I care about numbers more than if the ki in this state is godly or not.

So what's the multiplier? I'd say 50 times weaker than Super Saiyan Blue, as trying to go Super Saiyan in this form makes it a Super Saiyan Blue.

The multiplier of this form is exactly the same as Super Saiyan 3. It works pretty nicely like that so I'll leave it like this. It also has a nice ring to it with "well a saiyan with weakest god powers can match the highest transformation a mortal saiyan can get, not counting maxed super saiyan 2"

Why was that transformation helpful and when it occurs? Several cases, some I had a huge problem with when not including this transformation.

 - Ressurection F fight between "base" Goku and final form Frieza. Frieza was absurdly powerful compared to Super Saiyan Gohan and a regular base Goku wouldn't win with a Super Saiyan Gohan, therefore the godly form was needed.

- Zamasu Saga. "Base" Vegito managed to blow up Fused Zamasu's arm with a huge blast. The numbers didn't work with my made up fusion multipliers there without this form

- During tournament of power we see tired "base" Goku and Vegeta throwing their last resort attacks on Jiren. Since it was similar to when they trained against Whis I do believe it's not their base form but something much, much stronger, especially that a tired Jiren is actually pushed back by this.

- During the Broly movie. We see Super Saiyan Vegeta being overpowered by Broly's Rage mode while Goku starts the fight in a "base" form and actually managing to land some solid hits. It would be a great insult to Vegeta if Goku was in a many times weaker state but did much better so to help Vegeta regain some pride lets say Goku was in this state back then.

8. Super Saiyan beyond God / God-like Super Saiyan

Ok, first of all I'm sorry for including this form. This is a Super Saiyan form that got infused with Super Saiyan God ki, but not to the point where it can become a Super Saiyan Blue, which is an evolution of this state. From what we saw in an anime and the first Super movie it's actually weaker than Super Saiyan God, as Goku in order to block Beerus big blast attack managed to transform to Super Saiyan God for a second.

It really made it to the list for 2 reasons and both are movies, that are borderline manga canon in general:

-  To make the movie Battle of the Gods more canon, even if manga didn't show up Goku ever losing the Super Saiyan God transformation, just getting weaker in it.

- To help Vegeta's pride as with the above transformation- Goku is shown fighting Broly with his Super Saiyan transformation, that was doing a way better job than Vegeta's Super Saiyan.Super Saiyan God before that.

This form is 5 times stronger than Saiyan Beyond God, so 2 times weaker than Super Saiyan God.

9. Super Saiyan Blue

This form is rather easy to estimate. During a fight between Vegeta and Hit it is stated that due to transforming twice within minutes Vegeta lost a huge majority of his power and that he's around 10% of his max power. We also learn that he would be stronger by going to Super Saiyan God instead.

Which allows for an easy estimate that a regular Super Saiyan Blue is 5 times stronger than Super Saiyan God.

But what else do we know about this form?
It drains ki quckly, probably quicker than Ascended Super Saiyan, but still less than Frieza's not trained Golden Frieza, which allowed Goku and Vegeta to win with the stronger tyrant.
Despite Goku and Vegeta training for 3 years with that form they didn't find a way to lower the energy drain. Even after eating a senzu bean Vegeta loses energy very fast when fighting Goku Black.
We also know that the initial transformation explodes with energy, but the energy of the Super Saiyan Blue quickly lowers and sets at a more stable level.

This form can be mastered though, and keep all that initial power while eliminating the energy drain by trapping the plasmic aura inside the body. I give it a *2 multiplier

so a Mastered Super Saiyan Blue = *2 Super Saiyan Blue.

And no energy drain to boot, sweet.

Mastered Super Saiyan Blue can be power stressed as well, but it was shown to be extremely harsh on the body. I don't think Goku was more than 50% stronger by doing that.

10. Super Saiyan Rose

It was a very hard transformation to tackle. Apparently the transformation isn't much different from Super Saiyan Blue, but the way it's obtain definitely is + it looks like it doesn't strain the body as much as Super Saiyan Blue.

In order to make sense of it's power level I'll share some quotes from Dragon Ball Wiki


In the Dragon Ball Super manga, it is shown that when a Super Saiyan's power surpasses the power of the Super Saiyan God form, it will naturally progress into a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

It is unknown if Goku Black can still become an ordinary Super Saiyan, and what level of power it would possess, as when Goku's god-enhanced Super Saiyan form evolved into Super Saiyan Blue, it also caused him to re-acquire his non-god-enhanced Super Saiyan form.

What did we already state and know about Goku Black:

- He's stronger than not mastered Super Saiyan 2 in his base state.

- His Super Saiyan at first is a bit weaker than mastered Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta.

- He gets wrecked by Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, but after one zenkai he can put a fight against Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta.

- Then he transforms into Super Saiyan Rose after another zenkai and absolutely dominates Vegeta.

- Later he gets dominated by Super Saiyan God-to-Blue Vegeta.

If we treat his Super Saiyan like a regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rose like a regular Super Saiyan Blue then Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black is 400 times stronger than Super Saiyan Goku Black.
Which would mean that Vegeta's God-to-Blue switching also makes the user 400 times stronger. And Perfected Super Saiyan Blue is 600+ times stronger than a regular Super Saiyan Blue.
That would be insane.

The above statements from Dragon Ball Wiki help with figuring it out.

Super Saiyan Goku Black is so powerful that his power surpasses Super Saiyan God Goku/Vegeta, which with added Zamasu's godly powers make it work like a Super Saiyan God.

So in Goku Black's case we treat his Super Saiyan transformation as a Super Saiyan God.

Therefore Super Saiyan Rose mimicks puting a Super Saiyan Blue on top of Super Saiyan God, so Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black is 5 times stronger than Super Saiyan Goku Black.

EDIT: New theory

Since now I treat Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Beyond God as "official" transformations with their own numbers now I see it like this:

Goku Black we see for the first time isn't yet fully compatible with his own body. He's in a Saiyan Beyond God state (which allows him to beat Trunks without transforming and can fight SSj 2 Vegeta for a second without going Super Saiyan) but it's weaker than what it's supposed to be.

When Goku Black goes Super Saiyan we see him powering up during the battle with Vegeta a couple of times (his aura exploding with power) with Trunks being all concerned that Goku Black is stronger than before, while still being outclassed by Vegeta.

So Goku Black is fighting with Super Saiyan Beyond God state, with his power rapidly adapting during the battle to the level his ki is supposed to be in this form. After first zenkai after healing the power is surpassing what a Super Saiyan Beyond God is supposed to be and gets on a level of Super Saiyan God. Since we know that Super Saiyan God can match Super Saiyan Blue at least in speed, Goku Black can put up a fight against rapidly weakening Vegeta.
After a second zenkai his power in his Super Saiyan Beyond God surpasses even Super Saiyan God, allowing him to unlock Super Saiyan Rose.

Some numbers to show how I see it (all already in milions so add 6 zeroes behind them):

Saiyan Beyond God Goku Black: 8,400 (21 base Goku's power, 25%)
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 9,000
Super Saiyan Beyond God Goku Black: 42,000
Full Power Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 45,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 1,800,000
Super Saiyan Beyond God Goku Black: 42,000 -> 168,000 (goes to full power of this form)
Super Saiyan Beyond God Goku Black: 450,000 (after zenkai unlocked the power of SSG)
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 2,250,000 (after a second zenkai his power surpassed that of SSG, unlocking the Rose transformation)


11. Super Saiyan God-to-Blue

Like Kaioken it's more of a technique than transformation.

It was stated and hinted a few times that Super Saiyan God is faster/as fast as a  regular Super Saiyan Blue and doesn't share it's stamina issues. Therefore in order to beat Goku Black, Vegeta through intense training developed a technique where he stays in Super Saiyan God and powers up to Blue for a very brief periods in order to conserve stamina and utilize more of that initial Super Saiyan Blue power.

This technique is better than a regular Super Saiyan Blue, but weaker than Perfected Super Saiyan Blue.

The multiplier is in between- Super Saiyan Blue * 1,5.

12. Super Saiyan Blue Evolved

That's an upgrade over Mastered Super Saiyan Blue, reached by Vegeta when he was yet again behind Goku when it comes to power.

It's definitely at least two times stronger than a Mastered Super Saiyan Blue, since we see Vegeta give Jiren a good fight, doing way more than Goku and Hit at the same time previously.

Since this form wasn't used much or talked about, for now I give it *2,5 multiplier over a Mastered Super Saiyan Blue.

I think it might be similar in power to Ultra Instinct Sign, since Jiren commented that Vegeta with this form was stronger than anyone else aside of Goku's state. Which might suggest Vegeta at that point is stronger than power stressed Kale' initial power.

13. Ultra Instinct Sign

For now I will avoid talking about Ultra Instinct and Jiren's max power so there's gonna be a hole in the power level list. Jiren is definitely stronger than a Super Saiyan Broly, but I would say weaker than Legendary Super Saiyan Broly since Goku comments that Broly could be stronger than Beerus without mentioning Jiren, so I have a place where I can put Jiren's power when it's needed. Broly will be much easier to estimate than Jiren.

So treat this post as work in progress. Thank You for reading, see You soon.

Introduction and foreword

Hi!

I'm Rhodi, also known online as miqv44 here and there. But who I am is not important, what I do also isn't but You're here for a reason so lets get down to it:

I'm a guy that is trying to make sense of Dragon Ball powerlevels.

Yes, it's stupid, but it's a hobby of mine for the past 12 years and I've been known on Polish websites covering Dragon Ball years ago. My original power level list wasn't accurate when we considered canon multipliers for a few reasons, the main one being the Super Saiyan multiplier.
I never considered *50 to be correct- too many times we see saiyans in their base forms fighting much stronger opponents, one example is base Vegeta trying to stop Kid Buu and getting punched. He's about 400 times weaker than Kid Buu in his base form so I would expect him to explode from one punch like that.

But that's an old story, people online are obsessed with canon and accurate power levels. While I cannot say these are canon I'll be doing my best to present to You as accurate power levels as possible in the upcoming posts.

I'll be using the official (?) multipliers and aside of some posts where I discuss certain subjects how these multipliers should look these will be fixed. So Super Saiyan is always *50 base power, Super Saiyan 2 is always *2 Super Saiyan power etc.

My plan is to first post a few discussion posts before going for the raw powerlevels, so that it's not one big mess where there's a ton of talking about powerlevels along with powerlevels. I also don't know if you can pin a post to the top of the page on blogger, so I'm trying to leave the top of the blog for the list.

3 important informations left to say:

1. I don't profit from this. This is a hobby and something that I do to sleep well at night. I don't plan to profit from this in any shape or form. If the blog gets 10 views- that doesn't bother me. If the blog gets 100,000 views - cool, I'm glad that apparently people enjoy it, I don't profit from views.

2. This will be MANGA CANON ONLY . The anime, as creators said in the interviews , was build with 'rule of cool' in mind. The creators didn't care about power levels and powerscaling and oh boy does it show, every dragon ball fan knows that Dragon Ball Super is extremely inconsistent in power levels.
That being said Akira Toriyama and other people responsible for the manga also don't give it enough thought, but manga fixes some of the problems shown in the anime.
Therefore for me manga is the canon here, although I'm aware that the movies are supposed to fit both manga and anime canon. Also there was an incomplete manga about ressurection of Frieza that covers the movie and I will treat it (and the movie) as manga canon too.

3. All questions and suggestions are welcome. It's an ever evolving project and I have no problem changing some things when I hear decent argumentation.
HOWEVER it's easy to point a finger and say that one piece of this puzzle doesn't fit correctly and should be changed. It's hard to change that piece and keep the puzzle intact without breaking everything.
I'm painfully aware that some of these numbers could be better but I'm trying to keep all the multipliers intact and sadly I need to cheat in some cases. Don't worry though, I'll do my best to explain every case.
When making suggestions please make sure Your suggestion doesn't fix one issue while creating others, I have no problem making this power level list a group project as long as everyone involved has fun.

I'd like to thank now one person that inspired me into making it - PlagueOfGripes. He kept making a very successful videos talking about Dragon Ball which reignited my passion for trying to make powerlevels work no matter how stupid it is.

Thank You all for reading and see You very soon.