Saturday, June 6, 2020

Lets talk characters, main and secondary (in dragon ball Super)

I took a little break from dragon ball recently but since no one is reading these posts yet I can do that.

As of reading this post we reached a manga chapter where Goku lost his initial fight with Moro and Vegeta comes to the rescue. So please keep that in mind when reading the following text, maybe it will be updated later.

Goku and Vegeta

Since Vegeta is working hard to be at the very least equal to Goku I decided to include them both at the same time. It's usually easy to estimate their strength since they are the main characters, having the most fights, so I'll be brief here.
For now the only thing hard to estimate is how Vegeta's recent training developed his power. What we learned is that previously his spirit/ki control wasn't great and he got better, maybe even better than Goku.
I sincerely have no idea how will it change things, maybe Vegeta will just be stronger than Goku when it comes to numbers, or maybe he will be able to get more power from an existing transformation or find a new one. We will see.

One thing I wanna talk about when talking about Goku and Vegeta is that their base forms pretty much peaked, their increases in base powers are very low.
And I do believe that they peaked before reaching 100% Frieza from Namek Saga, since Beerus comments on doubting that Goku could defeat Frieza (my memory is wonky so I don't remember if it was in an anime or the movie though).

During the battle with Zamasu Trunks noted that senzu bean didn't make Vegeta stronger, and they also commented that Goku and Vegeta trained their bodies to the extreme levels, leaving little room for further improvements. They still get stronger though, just not by a huge, deciding margin really.

So please don't write angry comments that Base Goku should one-shot Kid Buu in Dragon Ball Super.

Gohan

Gohan is the main reason for writing this post.

Gohan sucks. Not only there's a long ass video made by Plague of Gripes who discusses Gohan's subject and how to fix that character but he's extremely inconsistent when it comes to power levels, especially in Super.
In DBZ he trains for about 5 years total and ignores training when he doesn't have to train. Even that comes back to bite him in the ass when Buu is resurrected he still doesn't train afterwards and gets weaker when Beerus shows up and forgets how to unleash his potential or even Super Saiyan 2 when Frieza returns (which happens in the movie, anime and in the movie manga so it's definitely more canon than not).
Which is fine but later we see him train for a very short time with Piccolo and suddenly he's able to take a weakened Super Saiyan Kefla, who is definitely at least as strong as early Super Saiyan Kale, one that could surprise a suppressed Golden Frieza with power and smack him around before Frieza was able to get super serious.

Gohan, who is probably weakened through not training to be around Super Buu power level is suddenly around the level of Golden Frieza from Ressurection F. Who was stronger than a regular Super Saiyan Blue Goku and probably still is stronger than a regular Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

Even if Piccolo said that Gohan during the tournament grew stronger than ever we're talking about out-of-ass *50 multiplier here.

And I'm going to give him just that on top of the Potential Unleashed multiplier (which is *10 over his Super Saiyan 2 multiplier).
We need a made up reason for that power up though so "thanks to training with Piccolo Gohan not only managed to unleash his potential again, but managed to master this state, stay in it for an extended period and unleash even more ki during battle, similar to a mastered Super Saiyan.

And trust me, it pains me how little it makes sense but we see it happen in a manga so in order to make sense of it we're giving him a *50 increase in power. A Toriyama handjob, as Plague called it.

Off topic but I actually like Gohan, even if he's pretty bland I always kinda liked his character. He seems like "I just wanna leave peacefully like a human but those aliens keeps trying to blow up my planet" kinda guy.

Lets talk a few of Gohan's powerlevels from DBZ:

Gohan: 1-710-1307 (during the battle with Radditz)
Gohan: 981 (suppressed during Saiyan attack)
Gohan's Masenko: 2800 ( since it's a technique I would say Gohan's base level is between 1305 and 2154)

afterwards Gohan definitely gets a zenkai boost after eating half a senzu and can somewhat fight heavily tired Vegeta (who's probably below 12,000 at this point).
Gohan during the battle with Vegeta is probably stronger than Krillin, since even after healing Krillin is quickly defeated. If we put Gohan at previously stated 2154 then after zenkai boost he should be around 2872.

After Vegeta is defeated Gohan gets another zenkai boost and after 1 month of image training with Krillin he's probably between 3800-5360. It doesn't actually matter much, his only feats then are defeating Frieza's soliders, kicking Dodoria hard and being smashed hard by Vegeta.

After having his potential unlocked by Guru Gohan is at 14,00 according to daizenshuu, even though most people argue he should be around Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

He gets his spine broken by Recoome putting little effort and gets another zenkai, after which he smacks around Ginyu Goku with the power of 23,000.

Gohan vs Guldo: 14,000
Gohan vs Recoome: 18,000 (why not, it really doesn't matter)
Gohan vs Ginyu Goku: 24,000

Then the fight with Frieza happen and Gohan's powerlevel skyrockets just like Vegeta's for bullshit reasons.
I didn't talk about Vegeta in that fight, dude jumps from being utterly defeated by Recoome to destroying Jeice to matching 1st form Frieza to being stronger than Piccolo within hours.
We're talking 30,000 powerlevel to way over 1,344,000 within hours. Vegeta was sad he wasn't a super saiyan- well, listen Vegeta, You actually went "false super saiyan" that day, this is clearly a *50 multiplier.

And Gohan actually isn't far from Vegeta on that day. It was stated somewhere that Gohan's power level at the start of battle with Frieza was at 200,000.
Then he got angry, which allowed him to smack around 2rd form Frieza for a little while (despite not doing major damage to him), then he got healed which put him probably back to when he was angry in terms of power and then he got angry again and tried to save Piccolo from 3rd form Frieza , surprising the tyrant but again- not doing major damage to him.

3rd form Frieza is probably around 2,000,000 and Gohan's ki output was probably higher than that, so lets try to give some numbers:

Gohan vs Frieza (start): 200,000
Gohan (angry): 800,000
Gohan (after healing): 800,000
Gohan (angry again): 1,600,000

After returning to Earth he's probably around 1,000,000 and he doesn't train until Frieza arrives again.
Then he spends 3 years with Goku and Piccolo but he just cannot keep up with a super saiyan and his namekian mentor.
It's unknown how strong Gohan gets since he doesn't fight the Androids, but it's nothing insane. Goku doesn't get significantly stronger in those 3 years (as a Super Saiyan he was at 150,000,000 during the battle against Frieza, probably around 200,000,000 when he landed on Earth and below 300,000,000 during the fight against Androids). I'll give Goku a 11% increase per year and give Gohan 5 times more, since Gohan is still growing up and has more potential than Goku (also he doesn't have a transformation to get used to)

Gohan (Android Saga): 3,724,000

But this hardly matters since the upcoming year in Room of Spirit and Time make Gohan the strongest fighter bar Perfect Cell in the whole Cell Saga.
This dramatic increase is thanks to mastering a Super Saiyan transformation, which allows to make Super Saiyan a second base form as it doesn't drain stamina and our heroes can even sleep in that form, making the training way more effective. Gohan also gets used to *10 gravity, which also helps to polish his powerlevel.

Gohan (Cell Saga): 31,200,000

and that power will be a peak for Gohan for a long time, since he doesn't train towards Buu Saga and gets significantly weaker. I'll give him a small boost after winning the hard battle with Cell but then a 5% decrease per year

Gohan (early Buu Saga): 23,240,000

He then notices that Goten is getting closer in power and learns that Goku comes back for a tournament, he trains for a short while

Gohan (tournament): 24,000,000

He loses/draws the battle against Dabura, who is probably around Super Perfect Cell level of power and gets healed a little with a senzu bean

Gohan (post Dabura): 24,800,000

Then he gets totally destroyed by Majin Buu and is healed back after sustaining critical injuries by Kibito.

Gohan (healed, pulling the Z-Sword): 26,450,000

Then he trains with the Z-Sword and gets much stronger fast, still it's below his peak.

Gohan (after Z-Sword training): 30,000,000

I didn't list Potential Unlocked as an official transformation but in order to make the numbers work (Ultimate Gohan being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks) we'll give him a nice *10 multiplier on top of his Super Saiyan 2.

Ultimate Gohan: 30,000,000,000

That level will also allow Goku to surpass him in early Dragon Ball Super since Gohan doesn't train for 4 years.

Gohan (start of Super): 27,000,000

Gohan (vs Frieza): 25,650,000.

Now he can't even go Ultimate, but according to the movie & anime in his SSj he's stronger than Piccolo. I don't like this scene and it doesn't appear in the movie manga and in the manga so I'll treat it as not fully canon. If someone wants to treat it as canon then I'll say Piccolo was very tired after handling tens of Frieza's soliders before.
I calculated 1st form Frieza to be around 240,000,000 so him defeating guard-down base Gohan in 1 hit doesn't seem too stretched.

Then the major bullshit happens and suddenly Gohan in 2 days of training with Piccolo manages not only to get his ultimate form back, but also stay in it for an extended period and match tired Kefla in battle. Kefla, who I repeat, was most likely to be little stronger than Super Saiyan Kale, who surprised both Frieza and Goku with her power, meaning that she and Gohan were around Goku and Frieza's levels during the Ressurection F saga, so basically a year ago in universe.

Don't expect me to explain this shit more than I already did in the beginning of this post.

Ultimate Gohan (early tournament of power, suppressed): 30,000,000,000
Ultimate Gohan (after growing in power during the tournament, suppressed): 37,800,000,000
Ultimate Gohan (full power): 1,890,000,000,000.

For now I will stop at this, it's too early to talk Gohan and Piccolo's battle against Moro.



Piccolo

Insert "look how they massacred my boy" picture here.

Piccolo was a badass, never staying far in terms of power compared to the saiyans and being a much smarter warrior than them, especially when he started to lag behind. A little out-of-Super history:
In Android Saga thanks to 3 years of training with Super Saiyan Goku he was stronger than an Android 20 (who was equal or stronger to Android 19) who stole some of his power beforehand.
He was around 2 times weaker than an Android 17 and got smacked by him hard.
Fusing with Kami made him stronger than 17, but 17 was still faster & didn't get tired. Piccolo could probably win with a Light Granade, an attack that shocked 17 when Piccolo used it against Cell.

And these are the last correct and visible estimations of Piccolo's power. So over 11 years before an action of Dragon Ball Super. This means that any Piccolo's power level visible after this point is just a big guessing game.

Piccolo got a lot more showtime in the DBS anime but I'll avoid the anime as much as I can.

Lets try to estimate Piccolo's power levels here, so if they are listed in the power level list they'll make as much sense as we can.

Lets say Piccolo's power level against 17 was 390,000,000, with 17 being at 370,000,000.

After that fight and getting destroyed by Imperfect Cell (who was around 500,000,000 at that point, being more or less equal to 16) Piccolo trained in the Room of Spirit and Time.

Goku was very impressed with Piccolo's power level, despite both of them stating it wouldn't do a thing to Perfect Cell. So I'm willing to give him the same multiplier that Vegeta got when he want to the chamber for the first time (2,16).

So Piccolo in Cell Games Saga is at: 842,400,000. He would most likely beat a Semi-Perfect Cell in battle and I don't think anyone would really strongly disagree with that, since Piccolo puts up a fight against Cell Jrs playing around.

Then 7 years pass and Buu Saga arrives. Piccolo is scared to fight Supreme Kai, but as many others I wouldn't say it's because of Shin's powerlevel, it's more about being afraid to hit a god of the universe. While we can only assume Shin is stronger, it's not by a huge margin. And I can see Piccolo winning the battle even with lower power level.
Also it's fair to assume Piccolo is weaker than Dabura, he wasn't fighting him but he got turned to stone fast so his reaction time might have been much lower than Dabura.

How does Piccolo compare to Goten and Trunks? He was a bit amazed by the kids Super Saiyan powers but I wouldn't say he would lose a battle to them 2v1. 18 didn't, so Piccolo wouldn't too.
Gotenks is a more difficult subject.
According to my own fusion multipliers Gotenks first appeariance is more or less around Cell Saga Super Saiyan Goku and Piccolo's pretty amazed by the power. But I'll say he's more impressed of the possiblity of putting a Super Saiyan on top of that.

But how strong did Piccolo get? We would have to guess a peace time multiplayer for him and sadly so far we didn't have any, we know he got incredibly more powerful between Frieza and Android Saga. Let's give him a similar multiplier Goku and Vegeta had, since as far as we know he peaked and can't improve on a similar magnitude as before. And while I don't like the idea that after 7 years Piccolo would be weaker than Perfect Cell, well, Cell was more than 2 times stronger than Piccolo in his Perfect form. I don't see Goku becoming 2 times stronger in that time and Piccolo wasn't shown to be training his ass off on Earth, unlike Vegeta.

Still, as a namekian and being very young for one I'm giving him a 9% increase per year. Slightly more than Goku, but he has no transformations to master.

Piccolo in Buu Saga: 1,540,000,000

While weaker than Perfect Cell in terms of power level I do think Piccolo would find a way to win with Perfect Cell with some tactics.

And since Piccolo doesn't really need to train better for Dragon Ball Super, in those 4 years lets keep the same multiplier.

Piccolo (early Dragon Ball Super): 2,174,000,000 . Still behind Teen Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 but stronger than Perfect Cell.
The only instance in which Piccolo is weaker is in the movie Resurrection F, when Shisami matches or is stronger than Piccolo.while being defeated by Super Saiyan Gohan's single punch.

I really don't like that scene at all. Piccolo weaker than a slacking Super Saiyan Gohan? Despite later giving a good fight to Frost, who was not a lot weaker than a Super Saiyan Goku? Movie manga didn't have that sequence at all, and regular manga skipped that moment. Therefore if we try to treat movies as much canon as we can I'll say Piccolo was pretty tired at that point, spending a lot of power to defeat Frieza's soliders. Gohan thanks to transformation available was just able to conserve energy much better than Piccolo.

For now I'll leave Piccolo at that level, I will have to estimate his power against Frost, who is stronger than Piccolo and weaker than Super Saiyan Goku and later's Piccolo power after he did a quick training with Gohan and was said to improve immensely.


Master Roshi

I'll add Roshi here, because he's one of the most fun characters in the series. DBS retconned him a bit, saying that he trained in secret for all these years and I'm all for it. He also has his own version of Ultra Instinct (in the manga) that allows him to fight Jiren and defeat Kahseral despite being said to have a powerlevel "low as dirt".

He has 3 "modes"
- base, where his last noted powerlevel was 139 when not fighting in early Saiyan Saga. He's very thin in that mode
- serious mode, with well developed muscles. He used that mode to fight Goku and Tien during tournament fights. During his fight with Goku his power was around 120 ki, when fighting Tien he was definitely over 139 (and over Yamcha). It's hard to say how strong he was compared to Krillin but he's far weaker than Tien, who didn't need to get serious to win with Roshi. For now we can estimate that he was between 139 and 170.
- Full Power Mode, in this form he's at his strongest but he might actually be slower than in his serious mode because of all the muscle mass. He used that form to blow up the moon and to fight Frieza soliders, so we can assume he needed more power than speed for a better crowd control when fighting Frieza army. It's unknown how many times stronger he is in that mode, probably at least 2 times.

In Ressurection F movie & manga he was kicking ass of Frieza soliders but he was seen to be damaged way more than other characters.
Regular Frieza solider has a powerlevel between 1000 and 2000 and Roshi is probably at least 2,5 times stronger since he can defeat many soliders at once,

It's been 26 years since we learned Roshi's last powerlevel of 139 .
We can assume that he peaked many years ago but that he knows how to train more effectively than Goku, so let's give him a 10% multiplier every year since then so after 26 years he's at 1657 in his base form. And that's fair, with his Full Power Mode being at least 2 times stronger Roshi can definitely smack around several Frieza's soliders


As for the rest of humans I need to talk about something first.
I'm a huge fan of Tien, Krillin and Yamcha. I'm not a fan of leaving them so far behind the main cast that they are pretty much useless, especially Tien who was a major threat to Goku and Roshi before, never stopped training and doesn't have a goal in life aside of mastering martial arts.
In my opinion it's Tien, not Roshi, who should be the closest to achieving Ultra Instinct as Roshi pretty much retired after fighting Tien in the original Dragon Ball.

So how strong should be human characters after Frieza saga. Is their power in thousands or milions? The answer is- it doesn't really matter that much. So why not make them as strong as we can?

Another question is- do you have a problem if at some point (early Android saga) humans were stronger in base form than Goku? Goku still has kaioken and super saiyan while Tien, Krillin and Yamcha have nothing. Toriyama didn't even bother giving them kaioken.

So I'm a huge fan of humans, I'm not a fan of extreme gaps in power levels and I don't see anything wrong with having humans stronger than base Goku at some point, now lets go to

Tien

Last recorded powerlevel of Tien is in Saiyan Saga when he was at 1830 and got dominated by Nappa. Even 100% Tri Beam wasn't enough to really damage Nappa.

After that Tien trained with King Kai for about 267 days (while Goku spent there 158 days in Saiyan Saga), got destroyed by 17 and his only other feat, albeit a massive one, was using his new Neo Tri Beam technique to keep Semi-perfect Cell in place, giving 18 and 16 time to escape, which almost cost Tien his life.

But there's one important thing to note- 16 with a punch wasn't even able to phase Cell, while Tien's technique could blow Cell away and do some minor damage to him. DB Wiki article about Neo Tri Beam says it's power is 100 times bigger than the user.
I like to think that Tien uses the principle of Kaioken to power up original Tri Beam. Instead of rising every ki point in his body like with kaioken Tien focuses the power in his hands, rising it even more.

If we assume *100 as a multiplier for Neo Tri Beam it's easy to estimate that the power of Tien is higher than 1% of 16. Android 16 estimations usually are around 500,000,000 so Tien should be at least at 6,500,000 to make an impact with Neo Tri Beam.

Super Saiyan Goku was said to be weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta back in Android Saga, and Vegeta was far from 18's max power, he got crushed fast when 18 stopped playing around. Therefore I estimate 18 being at 350,000,000 and Vegeta being near 300,000,000 in his Super Saiyan state. That would put base Tien above base Goku in Android Saga.

But how did Tien get there?

Goku on King Kai's planet got ~19 times stronger in 158 days. Tien spent more time there (267/158 = * 1,69), didn't "waste" time on learning kaioken and spirit bomb (*1,25), he had a company outside of King Kai to train with (*1,2) and he said in his mind that he needs to train harder than Goku because he doesn't want to always be behind (*1,15).
Therefore I estimate that after training with King Kai Tien was at 102,594. And that would support the anime filler when he fights Jeice and Burter at the same time and wins.

Then he trains lightly for 11 months before Frieza arrives. Tien still didn't peak at this point and knows that Goku is still much stronger so 10% increase seems fair. He's at 112,853 when Frieza arrives. Then he learns that Goku and Frieza are leagues ahead and outside his reach + that in 3 years androids kill everyone. That's as good motivation to train as when saiyans were coming to Earth, so the multiplier for his upcoming training will reflect that.
In a year he got 7,32 times stronger, but back then he still had to master ki control, so his gains back then were more significant. Still Piccolo in that time improved with a pace of *5,25 in a year (going from around 1,344,000 to over 150,000,000 in 3 years)  and I don't see why Tien wouldn't be able to pull 75% of that- he saw how strong a super saiyan is so he had a clear vision of his goal strength.

With 3,9375 increase/year Tien would reach 6,889,000 in 3 years + he developed Neo Tri Beam that multiplies his power by *100 (at least the first attack, I can see next blasts getting much weaker). That allowed to keep Semi-Perfect Cell in place while doing him some minor damage.

How about later Tien feats?

There were only a few- Tien redirected Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed) attack with his Neo Tri Beam and then got ko'ed with one kick.

In Dragon Ball Super Tien is even more useless, not being able to put any fight against Beerus, he helps defeat Frieza's soliders, during Tournament of Power isn't able to damage Frost (well, at least Frost is much stronger than he was during the previous tournament) and gets quickly knocked out by him. In the galactic prisoner saga he's not able to help Yamcha fight Zauyogi which was extremely disappointing- it means Yamcha is not far behind Tien in terms of power and that's just insulting to Tien.

So it's fair to say that Tien peaked in Android Saga (meaning Toriyama stopped caring about him completely) and that his later increases in power weren't as spectacular. With *1,085 increase per year he would be at 12,195,000 in Buu Saga and 16,900,000 at the start of Super.

And while I would love to give Tien 30,000,000 I don't think I can, Frost not being damaged by Neo Tri Beam really puts a hard cap on Tien's power.

Krillin

The strongest human. Not really, Krillin while being an awesome and  fun character stops training far too many times to be stronger than Tien. Toriyama shits on Tien so much already that I simply won't allow Krillin to be stronger.

Krillin's last recorded powerlevel that didn't use bullshit power-ups was 1770 in Saiyan Saga and it's a really important number. It's only slightly weaker than Tien's power at the time while Krillin was much weaker than Tien before that. Back in Dragon Ball Krillin was also catching up to Tien's level fast, despite being much weaker when Tien was introduced.

This suggests that Krillin trains more effectively than Tien.

Krillin has a "neo tri beam" of his own, the destructo disc. How strong it is? Well, it cut off Frieza's tail but Frieza might have had his guard down. Since Goku can be killed with a laser ring when having a guard down while Super Saiyan Blue it really doesn't say much about Destructo Disc power. But 1st form Frieza most likely had his guard down when Nail chopped his neck so Destructo Disc is definitely over 10 times stronger than that. My estimation would be between *20 and *40 so I should give it *30 multiplier and call it a day.

Krillin will be harder to estimate the power level, since it's not stated that he ever trained with King Kai and he had his potential unleashed which made him grow rapidly in power during the battle with Frieza. Worst part is that no one knows when it stopped and at what powerlevel.

When fighting Guldo his power is stated to be at 13,000 while later he has no problem fighting Ginyu Goku, meaning his power is around 23,000.
The last semi-official power level stated for Krillin is 75,000 when fighting Frieza, but it's unknown if it's at the start or the end of the battle.
It might be important to note that between 13,000 and 23,000 not much time has passed + Krillin was healed with a senzu bean. While before that Krillin's potential was unlocked, Krillin's power grew to a certain point (Vegeta mistook Krillin's energy signature for Zarbon at first) and then apparently stopped at 13,000.
This could mean that Krillin got a zenkai-like ability for a short while, powering him up immensely after being healed after a hard fight.

But let's go step by step:

Krillin during Saiyan attack: 1770. Maybe 1814 when he's healed with half a senzu.
Krillin on Namek: ~2500 (over one month of image training with Gohan)
Krillin post power up, early: 13,000 (steadily grows)
Krillin after senzu bean: around 23,000
Krillin start Frieza: 75,000
Krillin at the moment of death (stops growing): 132,750

I used the same increase he had during the fight with Recoome.
Around 15 months pass between Krillin's ressurection and Frieza's arrival so let's give Krillin a 12,5% increase since then.

Krillin when Frieza returns: 149,300

Now the training to Android saga is very hard to calculate, because Krillin has even less feats visible than Tien, even if we use anime filler we don't have much to work with- in the filler he's able to at least survive Gero's few attacks (well, it's more than what Yamcha achieved) and headbutted Imperfect Cell.  He didn't fight 17 and 18 and later bravely attacked Semi-Perfect and Perfect Cell despite not dealing any damage.

But we start with Krillin being stronger than Tien and a hint that he might actually train better than Tien. We also want to throw a bone to people who say that Krillin is the strongest human (that includes Toriyama apparently and we want to thank him for the series too).
Krillin also fought Frieza and knows best of all humans how strong Frieza is, so his goal in training is very clear.
I'll give him a yearly increase of 4,59375 which is between Piccolo's and Tien's increases in that time. It's also a close number to 4,6218, which is a a Tien's multiplier higher by 17% , a difference in power gain Krillin and Tien had back in Saiyan Saga.

So Krillin at he start of Android is at 14,473,000. The only thing that might contradict this powerlevel is that Base Vegeta opened Gero's lab door despite being now apparently weaker in base form than Krillin. But ki attacks are always seen to be much stronger than regular punches + it probably hurts as hell to punch a wall with 100% of your strength without breaking a bone while using a ki blast is much safer.

But despite being that strong Krillin peaked. He stopped training after Cell Saga and I don't see him even trying to keep the powerlevel he had. I'm giving him a 5% decrease/year.

Krillin in Buu Saga: 10,107,000. I'm not giving him a power increase for 10 days of training towards the tournament, not after 7 years. 10 days would be enough to dust off his abilities and bring back some battle instincts, nothing more.

Krillin also doesn't train in 4 years to Dragon Ball Super, so with further 5% decrease he's at

Krillin (early Dragon Ball Super): 8,232,000

But then finally in the galactic prisoner saga Krillin trains for 2 months and with 18 as a training partner I see him going back to his peak. We'll use the same increase as before (but divided by 6 since it's not a full year) and Krillin during his rematch with Yunba is at 13,162,000.

And yes, I didn't mention Tien's increase in that 2 months time but he isn't as motivated as Krillin, he doesn't have 18 as a training partner and his gains were always lower so that number isn't as significant as Krillin's increase.

Yamcha

Everyone loves Yamcha. He isn't really a top martial artist but he never really was, and Krillin was always stronger than him, even when Krillin stopped training and it was stated that Yamcha actually never stopped training, keeping in shape just in case of emergency. In the Galactic Patrol saga he's seen kicking ass of space convicts, 3 at the same time and they were definitely above Frieza's soliders in terms of power.

Last recorded powerlevel of Yamcha was 1480 during the Saiyan Attack, and he was killed by a selfdestructing Saibaman (power of that attack was likely to be around 3600).

Since then he trained with King Kai for 136 days but requesting a harder training than Goku had. Using a similar multipliers Tien had (but with shorter training time) Yamcha should be at 43,315.
That might be a tad too close to Recoome, who he defeats without much problem in the anime filler, but Yamcha still has techniques of his own:

His Wolf Fang Fist and it's evolved forms strike the opponent with greater speed & power than the user's powerlevel would suggest. Since it didn't do much against Kami I would say it's *1,5 increase, which would later be boosted to probably around *2,475 because of Yamcha's complete training with Kami and using ki control to boost the power of his moves when needed.

His Spirit Ball was able to hit Kami HARD, despite Kami being probably 2 times faster and stronger when they fought. Kami praised the technique afterwards. Even before Yamcha learned proper ki control I would say the technique multiplier is *2, which was boosted to probably around * 3,3 later.

Back to his powerlevel, we'll leave 43,315 for now and say that just like Krillin he trained lightly before Frieza comes to Earth, giving him a powerlevel of 48,729.
He freaked out when he sensed Frieza's suppressed power of probably 30-60 milion and that definitely put a goal in his mind for the upcoming 3 years of training.

As for the training I don't think Yamcha is the same league as Tien and Krillin. Despite having bigger gains than Tien in Saiyan Saga he was very weak compared to Tien before they trained together (177 compared to 250) , so he was weaker than Tien was back when Tien was introduced for the first time, and that's 7 years before that. In 7 years Yamcha wasn't able to match Tien's first appeariance in the series, while  Tien in that time got stronger than young King Piccolo.
So I'm giving Yamcha 65% of Piccolo's increase in that time (*3,4125/year) compared to Tien's 75%.

Yamcha (Android Saga): 1,936,000. And that seems fair, at first Android 19 and 20 confuse his power level with Goku's so it's definitely not 10,000 as some of the powerlevel lists online suggest..

Yamcha stops being a fighter after Android Saga, but as mentioned before it's stated that he still trains. Since he doesn't train towards a certain goal I'm giving him a 5% increase per year.

Yamcha (Buu Saga): 2,724,000.

Yamcha has no feats in fighting in Buu Saga (not counting anime filler). I'm keeping the same 5% increase when going to DBS

Yamcha (Dragon Ball Super): 3,311,000.

At that level he definitely wouldn't have a hard time defeating some Moro magic boosted convicts (who are probably between 20,000 - 200,000 when it comes to powerlevels)


Chiaotzu

I don't think another fighter gets as little screen time as the little pale fella.
When it comes to manga canon fights Chiaotzu peaks at selfdestructing against Nappa, not being strong enough to blow up his armor. Before that he was nearly killed by Mercenary Tao and defeated by Krillin during his own introduction.

His last and probably only powerlevel stated was 610 during the Saiyan attack and many people strongly suggest Yajirobe was stronger at that point, weekly shonen jump saying he was at 970.

But we can work with that, we've got Yamcha so we can get little fella as well.

After dying he went to train with King Kai for as long as Tien trained. We'll give him an identical increase Tien had, so basically he's still 3 times weaker than Tien:

Chiaotzu (after King Kai): 34,200. In the anime filler he defeats Guldo with no problem and that level would fit.
Chiaotzu (Frieza arrives): 37,617

Now 3 years pass towards the Android Saga. Chiaotzu was never in the same league as Yamcha and Tien commented during early Android Saga that Chiaotzu was too weak to bring him, so even when I'm generous and giving Chiaotzu 50% of what Piccolo had in terms of power increase it still seems a lot.

Chiaotzu (Android Saga): 680,412

So Tien sensing that his friend is 100 times weaker than suppressed Frieza would make him not wanna risk Chiaotzu's life during Android attack. Still, Chiaotzu never stopped helping Tien get stronger so he trained with him. I don't think his multiplier should be Tien's 1,085 but it should be higher than Yamcha's 1,05. 1,0675 is in the middle.

Chiaotzu (Buu Saga): 1,075,000

Chiaotzu (Dragon Ball Super): 1,396,000.

Why not?

EDIT:

Android 18

18 just like Chiaotzu is very hard to estimate, since we never see her training, even in anime I think she's only training with Krillin for the Tournament of Power and there was a very little time to improve.

We have no good numbers or estimations for the opponents she defeats during the Tournament which also doesn't help.

We only know that she cannot get weaker and I see her getting a little stronger in 7 years.

18 (Buu Saga): 375,000,000

With similar slight increases towards Dragon Ball Super.

18 (early Super): 390,000,000

I will continue listing her levels in later DBS after I figure out how many days she can train. She will definitely improve by a huge margin before her battle with Moro (but probably below Piccolo)

Android 17

17 got retconned in DBS and it was said that the dude is training, being able to overpower and scare Super Saiyan 3 Goku before Tournament of Power. In order to be in a similar magnitude of power I'm giving him a 45% increase in power/year

17 (Buu Saga): 4,986,000,000

17 (Tournament of Power): 46,300,000,000

As with 18 I will list his powerlevel during the Moro fight later.



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